with hadith.
I try not to, but I just can't stomach the idea. Coming from a Christian background, the hadith seem even less reliable than the Bible. I'm tired of listening to people tell me how to live a Godly life...God already told me...in the QUR'AN!
This was prompted by Um Abdullah's post on apostasy. I typed a long comment to her there that you can read if you click on the link and go to her comments.
I do not believe apostasy is punishable by death. I do not believe adultery is punishable by death.
I get really frustrated when the Qur'an so CLEARLY states one thing (There is no compulsion in religion) but then people go around killing family members for choosing their own path because some hadith told them to.
I use hadith sparingly, and only for elaboration, not as divine law. I know there are many many Muslims who hold the hadith in a much higher regard than me. If I HAD to do that, though, I wouldn't be Muslim. How could I follow a religion that I blatantly disagreed with on many counts?
If Allah gave us the Qur'an to follow, as a guidance, (which I believe he did), then why would he leave out information that is essential to the faith? The answer is, he wouldn't. Some hadith may help you become a better person/Muslim, but I think everything NEEDED to be a Muslim is already available in the Qur'an.
I'm trying to be as respectful as possible. But it upsets me when I see new Muslims accepting the unacceptable (killing your own children for apostasy) because it's found in the Arab culture (which means it's definitely Islamic! *sarcarsm*) or because it's found in a "authentic" hadith.
The God that I worship ordered a stop to the dreadful practices of burying newborn daughters. The God I worship does not advocate the killing of one's own children in any circumstance.
24 comments:
The reason you are suppose to follow the hadith is because they are authentic narrations of what the prophet mohammed sws said or did. The reason for following hadith is because you are suppose to follow our beloved prophet mohammed sws.
ok so that being said, there are many many things (uh rules, regulations? steps?) to take before you actually just off someone- no one is allowed to just go and do that. Its basically like a court proceeding before anything is allowed to be done.
And I totally believe that someone who was a muslim, and then leaves islam, deserves whatever allah swt and his last and final messenger prophet mohammed sws deem appropriate because they knew the truth and then left it. Besides, for the people who do not accept islam, there is only one firey abode waiting for them in the next life.
May allah swt guide us all and forgive our sins. Ameen.
Oh, and proof you can't ONLY follow the qur'an (by giving one example) is the fact that you have to pray your daily 5 salaats. In the qur'an it says to do this- but it does not say HOW. Only the hadith do this. Same with how much to give in Zakaat- and much more. Its a very simple concept. :D I'm just trying to explain it but i'm sure everyone is about to do this so sorry for the repeat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2XDBiWuRVs
Salaam,
I can understand your frustration and annoyance. I am not going to give an opinion on the issue you raised because I think we should look towards scholars for clarification of certain issues, especially those who know the science of hadith and which ones are sound and which ones are weak.
I just want to point out that hadiths are necessary. In Qur'an, Allah SWT tells us to obey Prophet Muhammad (s.). The only way we can obey him is to know about his life and what he taught, etc. The Qur'an may give some details but it don't give an account on what the Prophet did throughout his life. So we have to turn towards hadiths for that.
An example of this is that although in Qur'an Allah SWT tells us to pray, you will not find anywhere where it shows us how to pray. So we need to look towards the traditions of the Prophet (s.) to know how to live by Islam.
I am in no way trying to discount what obviously bothers you. I just feel that because of this particular issue (apostasy) you should not then just turn your back on the hadiths.
When I read the Quran earlier this year, I had people explain that the Quranic story of Noah (which differs from the Biblical account) gave precedence to disowning your apostate children. You'll recall Noah's son was drowned and Noah protested this, but God told him that this truly wasn't his son. Apparently this "son" didn't believe Allah so God disowned him FOR Noah. Maybe since God did this, some Muslims read apostate children are disowned. Not sure where the killing comes into play except that God drowned Noah's son in the Flood.
This differs from the Bible where all three of Noah's sons, their wives, Noah and his wife were saved.
Anyway, I agree with you. It's shameful to kill anyone for choosing his/her own path. We will each be accountable to God for how we lived and it's no one else's choice to make for us! This is why I disagree strongly with people being "born Muslim" or "born Christian." You can raise your son in the principles of Islam, but you cannot MAKE him a Muslim. He must choose his own path. Just as you did yours.
I cannot agree more. I follow the hadiths that are rational--the ones that tell us how to pray, make zakah, etc. But this is just ridiculous. Same will killing adulterers/homosexuals. The thought of killing an innocent person that happens to be homosexual makes me want to cry. One of my best friends is bisexual, and I am about as pro-gay rights as anyone ever was.
Simply unbelievable.
I am currently trying to figure out my own connection to God. My own way of living on the Islamic path. I already decided that I am 100% non denominational (I am neither Sunni nor Shiite and I don't believe in choosing one of the four madhabs) and I am also somewhat Unitarian Universalistic in that all religions are sacred and anyone can acheive salvation simply by doing good deeds. My belief in God, His angels, His holy books and His messengers are simply what help me along the way. They're what remind me to keep doing good deeds. If I had to be Muslim in the sense that so many people are, with multiple denominations and divides, believing in every single so called Hadith (who knows how accurate those are??), etc. I would not be Muslim.
Whatever happened to the idea that if you said a testimony of your faith, prayed, fasted, gave charity, and performed a pilgrimage to Mecca at least once, and if you believed in and loved God, His angels, His holy books, and His prophets and you did good deeds you were a true Muslim? What happened to that? That's the kind of Islam I practice and I refuse to practice anything else.
So you could say I'm a Unitarian Universalistic, non-denominational Muslim. And that's all there is to it.
Its sick and unbelievable how there are muslims who are ok and even condone people to commit homosexual acts when the Prophet sws himself has condemned it- and also Allah swt destroyed a whole city because men left their women and had sexual relations with other men.
It was a man by the name of Dean Hamer who made it a popular belief that people are 'born' gay. He did a scientific study in which he concluded that some people are born with certain genetics that make them homosexual. The thing is, his studies were soon disqualified because he did not follow proper procedures, such as he did not even have a constant. NO scientific study can be done with out a constant. Also, his lab assistant was dismissed when she admitted that he was picking and choosing results.
Much later, it was revealed that he himself is a homosexual.
Allah swt would not allow someone to be born a sinner. He would not allow people to be killed (such as the situation with Prophet Lut's (Lot) people, if they were not sinning in a high degree.
Allah swt is the most merciful- but don't forget he is the most JUST. We are not the ones who determine what justice is. Allah swt is, and Prophet Mohammed sws would never have gone against his wishes.
And Lut, when he said to his people, "Do you commit an obscenity not perpetrated before you by anyone in all the worlds? You come with lust to men instead of women. You are indeed a depraved people." (Qur'an, 7:80-81)
(Al-Hijr Aya 73) And We turned (the Cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay.
I could post hadith too, but that should be enough proof from the Qur'an that it is a sin.
With all respect, to start with, the verse you cited of the Quran about no compulsion in religion is ABROGATED, it is not valid. And about why to follow the hadith, without it, you would not know how to pray, it is not in Quran, just to give you an example. If you are to follow what Muhammad did, you are to kill the disbelievers, to believe that Christians and Jews are apes and monkeys, to believe it is right to marry children, etc. I will pray for you to find the truth... you can start by reading Bukhari, take your time, read it little by litter and ask the Lord to open your eyes while you read...
Sis, you know that with a title and posting like this, you will get attacked, and/or "corrected". It's how the majority believes. Sometimes people are blinded, so to speak, and can't see any way besides the way they believe.
The best thing for me was looking at the history of the hadiths - how they were compiled, how long after Prophet Muhammad (saw) died ... if it made any sense to me that they could've remained uncorrupted or not. And the question of what the first Muslims did for 200+ years without a compiled, sorted hadith collection (where the fake hadiths were sorted out).
I don't agree with killing apostates or people being stoned for adultery either, the Qur'an even says in the beginning of the chapter about the punishment for zina that it was making itself very clear about the punishment. You can't say there's no compulsion in religion if the punishment for leaving it is death. ;)
"Besides, for the people who do not accept islam, there is only one firey abode waiting for them in the next life."
alabaster muslim, as a muslimah whose mother is catholic but very much respects my religious choice, i have to disagree with you on this statement. the qur'an states that "those who believe in the qur'an, and those who follow the jewish scriptures, and the christians and the sabians--any who believe in allah and the last day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." some people will simply never be muslims. this does not mean they utterly reject allah, nor does it mean that they will end up in hell. you cannot make that judgment; only allah can. he knows best, and he is oft-forgiving, the most merciful.
Nikki: *Hugs* hang in there. Just keep studying, keep reading. Hadith have a purpose you just have to find out how they fit into your life.
I have the same issue with hadith in that I dont really understand the lack of "thinking space" between reading them, understanding them and applying them and separating and using them as a separate entity to the Quran and a separate knowledge source.
The biography of the Prophet is very important to all of us, of course it is. But using him as an Idol is different to obeying God.
I find that people quote more hadith than Quran, and some scholars have argued that the Sharia is based more on Hadith than Quran - something like 95% hadith, and 5% Quran has been used to formulate the Sharia even.
Hadith is part of islam. Without hadith many things that are mentioned in the Quran you wouldnt know about. Tellme, what does the Quran say about how many times you should pray or how you should pray?
Thats why we need hadith, the problem is that the Ommayyids infested the hadiths with a lot of lies and crap, thats why there is a whole science that is called ilm al rijal, that checks out which hadiths are true, false or reliable..
@Neco: That verse is directed at the people who were christian when the bible was the truth, and for the Jews when the Torah was the truth- neither of those books are correct now, so it does not apply. Most of my family are Catholics, but I personally will not deny the truth just because its a sad end for those I love.
AH. Dontcha just love people who use their religion as an excuse for their homophobia? That's what's "sick and unbelievable."
alabaster muslim, if this were true, then why are muslim men permitted to marry women who are of the people of the book? i'm sorry, but i don't accept your explanation, and it makes me sad for you that you think this way. part of the reason that i found islam so appealing was that in its essence, it is a religion of acceptance, tolerance, and love. moreover, as muslims we are responsible for being good people, not simply believing. as muslims, we believe that there is no guarantee that we will find jannah simply because we are muslims, nor is there any guarantee that non-muslims are automatically banned from it. your initial comment reminds me of something a right-wing evangelical christian would say.
allah is oft-forgiving, the most merciful.
@Nicole: Yes a muslim man can marry a (chaste) Christian or Jew...yet their children have to be....oh yeah. MUSLIM. Research it yourselves. Don't just look for something you WANT because you have non-muslim people you love, as even I do.
If non-muslims were all going to heaven, then why would allah swt have even sent Prophet Mohammed sws? To just make a new religion? Sorry, I don't think so. And on top of that, most Christians and Catholics commit shirk by believing in the trinity or that Isa (a.s.) is the son of god (so they pray to him or 'through' him) and again, shirk is UNFORGIVABLE. You can look that one up, too.
Don't feel sorry for me. I've actually done research from both sides. Also, I actually believe the ulamah are correct scholars and I DO believe in the books (of hadith) of al-bukhari, sahih muslim, etc.
Then again I am sunni, so maybe thats why we all disagree.
*sigh* this is my last comment on this page, but again here is more proof:
"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islaam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers." [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
Assalaamu'alaikum, Nicole :)
The reason why men are allowed to marry the people of the book has nothing to do with them being accepted into Paradise or not.
We shouldn't confuse the inward issues with the outward issues. We Muslims judge only by what is apparent, and we act according to Allah's divine commands, that is to be just and fair to everyone, even to the non-muslims. But there is a limit to our relationship with them such as to not take the non-muslims as our awliya'.
Furthermore. it is not for us to decide which INDIVIDUAL goes to Jahannam. All we know is that acts of shirk leads you to jahannam if one dies upon it. Shirk is the only sin that cannot be forgiven if one doesn't repent before it's too late.
“Verily, Allaah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him (in worship), but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He wills; and whoever sets up partners with Allaah in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin”
[al-Nisa’ 4:48]
And also, the christians of today are not the same as the christians who did not hear about Muhammad (sallallahu 'alaihi wassalaam).
“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers” [Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]
Wallahu'alam. :)
Here is Muhammad Asad's translation of 3:85:
3:85 For, if one goes in search of a religion other than self-surrender unto God, it will never be accepted from him, and in the life to come he shall be among the lost.
And from his foreward:
"Furthermore, one must beware of rendering, in each and every case, the religious terms used in the Qur’an in the sense which they have acquired after Islam had become “institutionalized” into a definite set of laws, tenets and practices. However legitimate this “institutionalization” may be in the context of Islamic religious history, it is obvious that the Qur’an cannot be correctly understood if we read it merely in the light of later ideological developments, losing sight of its original purport and meaning which it had – and was intended to have – for the people who first heard it from the lips of the Prophet himself. For instance, when his contemporaries heard the words islam and muslim, they understood them as denoting man’s “self-surrender to God” and “one who surrenders himself to God”, without limiting these terms to any specific community or denomination – e.g. in 3:67, where Abraham is spoken of as having “surrendered himself unto God” (kana musliman), or in 3:52, where the disciples of Jesus say, “Bear thou witness that we have surrendered ourselves unto God (bi-anna muslimun)”. In Arabic, this original meaning has remained unimpaired, and no Arab scholar has ever become oblivious of the wide connotation of these terms. Not so, however, the non-Arab of our day, believer and non-believer alike: to him, islam and muslim usually bear a restricted, historically circumcised significance, and apply exclusively to the followers of the Prophet Muhammad. Similarly, the terms kufr (“denial of the truth”) and kafir (“one who denies the truth”) have become, in the conventional translations of the Qur’an, unwarrantably simplified into “unbelief” and “unbeliever” or “infidel”, respectively, and have thus been deprived of the wide spiritual meaning which the Qur’an gives to these terms."
2:62 VERILY, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians -all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.
Muhammad Asad - End Note 50 (2:62)
The above passage - which recurs in the Qur'an several times - lays down a fundamental doctrine of Islam. With a breadth of vision unparalleled in any other religious faith, the idea of "salvation" is here made conditional upon three elements only: belief in God, belief in the Day of Judgment, and righteous action in life. The statement of this doctrine at this juncture - that is, in the midst of an appeal to the children of Israel - is warranted by the false Jewish belief that their descent from Abraham entitles them to be regarded as "God's chosen people".
Thank you for that Aynur. I really am sad for Alabaster, who has all the reason to believe that not only "Muslim" in the cult sense will enter paradise, but anyone who surrenders himself to God. And still choses to believe that her own family will burn.
And sad for Bahlool who believes that one of the most peaceful verses of the Qur'an is invalid because something else supposedly contradicts it!
Nikki, I really agree with you and would not be a Muslim if hadiths were on equal ground to Qur'an in divine law and if the Qur'an abrogated itself (no matter which verses were abrogated; Allah does not need to correct his mistakes because He has none).
Assalaamu'alaikum brothers and sisters! :)
Below are a few copy and pastes which may be of benefit, inshaAllah.
Chain of Narrators?
The same people who transmitted the statements of the Prophet (sallAllaahu alaihi wa sallam) have also transmitted the Qur`an. No one in their right mind will argue about the authenticity of the Qur`an; so how could the validity of the authentic Sunnah be a matter of debate when they both were transmitted to us by the same people? The Sunnah of the Prophet (sallAllaahu alaihi wa sallam) like the Qur`an is wahee (revelation) from Allah the Most High.
Allah says: "And he (Muhammad) does not speak of (his own) desire. It is only an Inspiration that is inspired."
Thus, it is obligatory upon every Muslim man and woman to follow the Qur`an and the Sunnah in every aspect of their lives. To further elaborate, the Qur`an like the Hadeeth has a chain of narrators that reaches back to the Prophet (sallAllaahu alaihi wa sallam), who heard it from Jibreel (alaihis salaam), who heard it from Allah Ta'ala. Each recitation has its own authentic chain of narrators....
Understanding the Qur'an?
"…And We revealed to you the message [i.e., the Quran] that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them…" [Quran: 16:44]
There are contradictions in the Hadith, even Sahih, for a Layman it's contradictions, for a learned person it is not at all. For example Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam) would say to sit when you drink, yet one narration shows he was standing. That is a contradiction to the laymen, for the learned, it is not at all. One narration is that the Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam) was in a state of being in thirst so he asked for water and was standing. One who performed Ijitihad properly can conclude that sitting is a suggestion, not an order.
A layman may also say that a sahih hadeeth contradicts the Qur'an, but for the learned, not at all. The Qur'an and Sunnah go hand in hand, and they cannot be separated from each other. If you want to understand certain ayat in the Qur'aan, you need the explanation from the Sunnah. And not to forget, we understand the Quran and Sunnah the way the companions understood it.
Abdullah narrated that the Prophet said, ‘The best of people are those in my generation…’ (saheeh of bukhaari)
Abdullah bin Amr narrated that the Messenger of Allah said, ‘The children of Israel split into seventy two sects and my Ummah will split into seventy three sects, all of them in the Fire except one.’ They asked, which one is that O Messenger of Allah?’ he said, ‘That which I and my companions are upon.’ (sunan of Tirmidi/authenticated by Albaani)
Understanding the Qur'an?
"…And We revealed to you the message [i.e., the Quran] that you may make clear to the people what was sent down to them…" [Quran: 16:44]
There are contradictions in the Hadith, even Sahih, for a Layman it's contradictions, for a learned person it is not at all. For example Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam) would say to sit when you drink, yet one narration shows he was standing. That is a contradiction to the laymen, for the learned, it is not at all. One narration is that the Prophet (salalahu alahi wasalam) was in a state of being in thirst so he asked for water and was standing. One who performed Ijitihad properly can conclude that sitting is a suggestion, not an order.
A layman may also say that a sahih hadeeth contradicts the Qur'an, but for the learned, not at all. The Qur'an and Sunnah go hand in hand, and they cannot be separated from each other. If you want to understand certain ayat in the Qur'aan, you need the explanation from the Sunnah. And not to forget, we understand the Quran and Sunnah the way the companions understood it.
Abdullah narrated that the Prophet said, ‘The best of people are those in my generation…’ (saheeh of bukhaari)
Abdullah bin Amr narrated that the Messenger of Allah said, ‘The children of Israel split into seventy two sects and my Ummah will split into seventy three sects, all of them in the Fire except one.’ They asked, which one is that O Messenger of Allah?’ he said, ‘That which I and my companions are upon.’ (sunan of Tirmidi/authenticated by Albaani)
Hi!
I just came across your blog!
You're not alone in your doubts and suspicion of hadiths. As an Islamic Studies student, I've taken courses on the hadiths, and although no one can deny what hard efforts have been put into the compilation of hadiths, we HAVE to admit that most hadiths contradict the Quran or are utterly illogical or absurd. Yes, hadith compilers made sure that every hadith they declared "authentic" was truly authentic, but how could they verify it for sure? Today, we say it's authentic just because they said it was authentic. But what if it's not? And, heck, no two Muslims can agree on the authenticity of hadiths anyway. (I don't mean just ordinary Muslims; I mean actual scholars.)
Besides, here's something to think about: Abu Hurairah knew the Prophet for hardly 3-5 years -- much, MUCH lesser a time than the Prophet's wives or four companions. Yet, guess how many hadiths he's narrated!!! He's narrated over 5,300 hadiths! And the Prophet's beloved wife, Aisha? Guess how many she narrated, despite having shared an intimate and complete life with him: She's narrated a mere 2000 or so.
Does one have to be a genius to wonder how this happened?
What's worse, Aisha declared Abu Hurairah a liar in many hadiths (check out Al-Tabari's accounts of these; I'd have to give specific reference another time (remind me, please), because my references are at the moment far from me), and yet, when most Muslims today mention Abu Hurairah, they go, "God be pleased with him!" Oh heck no.
Anyway, I'd say study the history of hadiths, and try to understand both sides -- the side that says we MUST believe in hadiths and why as well as the side that says to reject them. Of course, there's a middle-ground as well, so I'd suggest look into that too :)
I have some books I can recommend to you on this if you're interested. Do let me know. And whatever you do, keep this one thought of wisdom in mind: It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it (Aristotle). So, study these things without feeling as though you MUST accept or reject one particular side of the issue.
P.S. Thanks to Aynur for her comments!
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